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# 2 "Bermese Goat Cheese"
    By A Thick Headed Git
    On Tue May 24, 1988  4:49 AM
    LR Thu May 26, 1988  9:16 PM
    -- 11 Responses total --
# 3 "No, you DIDN'T hit the space bar"
    By CUTTER (ID# 39)
    On Fri May 27, 1988  9:20 PM
    LR Thu May 26, 1988  9:20 AM
    -- 3.14 Responses total --
O.k. I think that dealt enough abuse,
and must have realy played havoc on those of you who though
did not touch the keyboard, skipped an apparent post..
Controversial     Almost.
SubOp cruelty     Possible.
We've summoned the Gods and they've all agreed.


May i also espouse the lack of merits in choosing the easy way out.  Perhaps
you dislike what i say so intensly because it has a sharp shard of social
truth and reponsibility.
It is easier to purge that which threatens us.  It is easy to kill that which
goes against our desires and true feelings.  But it is harder to face it at
each and every moment.  It harder to face constant conflict with little rest.

Surprisingly all of you have somehow and at some point claimed to have known
me in the greatest of details (to varying degrees of this level).  Yet, i tell
all of you know, each and every one of you, even those that i call friends in
a mutual basis, none of you truly know everything there is to know about me.
Very large points in my life, and very long periods in my life none of you
have the faintest idea about.
Yet, you claim to know me by my written word alone.  How short sighted, and
blazingly ignorant.
True, i have condemned most of you here at some point in time.  Some more than
others.  Why do i do it      Because i enjoy to      Come now...  Does anyone truly
enjoy conflict and hatred direct at them      No.
And just as i have condemned most of you, also at some point have i praised
Who is the sickest amongst us, when so few of you take care to note the
greatest and lightest of things, over the weakest and darkest of things   
I speak of society because it is relevent.  You claim not to be a part of it,
yet from evidence before me, all of you are intertwined with it, just as much
as i am.  Society is relevent here because this is a microcosm of society!
That which YOU have condemned you have managed to create within your own
midsts.  And to the greatest of accuracies.
Now you must begin to eat what you have made, no matter how bitter and vile it
Purge me now.
   Good Lord, if THAT doesn't kill
this post, I don't know what will...

           :) Frumpy (:

P.S.: Isn't it nice to be known as a
secret identity     To be able to
temporarily escape the maddening
world of constant worries and
pressures     I think so. That's why I

JARETH (ID# 102)
 And again a FELLOW user speaks in a
few words saying much.I'm just glad to
say that i in no way know Robert
  I would say that i hope he rots in
Hell,but i wouldn't want to offend any
dieties listening...

And they've spoken...
JARETH (ID# 102)
  An who has spoken     Certainly not any
dieties...I think they've been scared

Well, Robert, I think yoou've gone a tad overboard.  I, the person on this
system who knows you better than anyone else here, have never EVER claimed to
know all about you.  Just like I knowthere's a lot you don't know about me.

Can I PLEASE ask one thing of everyone      Can we distinguish somehow when we
are serious  and when we are joking or using sarcasm      Apparently, it appears
to me all too often that things that are not in true seriousness are being
construed as being TOO personal and serious.

I doon'tthink in any truth Xan wants you purged from the system, nor do I
think anyone feels so hostile towards Robert that would give cause for him to
feel theneed to banter on justifying his existence.

Conflict is fun and intersting.  It makes the world go around.

But such pettiness doesnothing but cause tension on the system and make the
rest of us feel awkward.

Am I acting "holier than thou" and being very forward and impetuous by
lecturing at you like this      YES  ANd noneed to tellme so or criticize me for
it.  I'm criticizing MYSELF enough fr it already.

But as I watch the board Derec builtup from nothing suddenly start to fray
around the edges like this, I have no other choice.

So what's my point      The point is that this is teleCOMMUNICATIONS.  We seem to
be having problems doing just that.
May we quit all this and start up a discussion and NOT let it turn into a
debate          I think we have the potential to do it.  Let's prove it to

     Thank you Dex, you said it all...  There is no need for Robert to
"justify" his existence and I really don't think that Xan (a woman who hates
the fact that everything must die) would actually like to see Robert purged.
Granted, no one knows everything about Robert, or anyone else for that matter.
Then again, no one knows everthing about any one.  It's not possible...  My
best friends don't know "jack s**t" about me...  And I recently realized I
don't know "jack" about me, either...  I suggest we get off of this morose
topic and continue with our discussions PEACEFULLY... 

     Now, as for your question Frumpy, I don't know I have never been in a
"gay bar"...  I can believe there is less fighting, that would make a lot of
sense.  Would you argue with a potential date      You are right, MOST gay men
are not violent...  For what reason      I don't know, but I am not complaining
about it... 

     As for you comments Robert, why do you feel you have the right to be
destructive to 10% of society      Do you like segregating homosexuals      Your
views are not good, for anyone...  Don't you realize your views could cause a
lot of conflict and destruction between the two sexualities      Do me and
everyone else a favor, don't express your opinions to any young impressionable
minds...  Those views are not healthy...

     Do you live in a dream world      Accepting people for what they "could be"
(translated - heterosexual    ), instead of what they are (homosexual)      Aren't
you supposed to accept people for who they are, not what you want them to be     
Also, who says that your views are the "truth" (refering to the "truth hurting
society" line you used)          The truth is homosexuality is not going away, you
can't destroy 10% of society...  Accept it now, or accept it later, but it's
here to stay.  Haven't you considered that some of the world's greatest minds
have been homosexual      They are not immoral, mutants, perverts, etc...  They
happen to feel differently about people that heterosexuals do...  Just because
you are friends with "that person" doesn't mean everyone has to be friends
with "that person"...

     Incidently, yes, I do actually like having people "hate" me at times,
depending on the person...  (seriously, I am not refering to anyone on this

                                                            % Tez
I do not feel i have gone "overboard" in terms of my previous extensive
message on the recent statements of Xan and others.  I will continue to
supporty statements and the policy it speaks of.
Further more, i feel was being serious, in her own way.  She may find it
convienant and beneficial to deny this now that the tide has swung against
such views, but the Reality of the situation can not change.
Tez, such inflamatory comments as questioning whether i live in a dream world
are not constitutive of a "discussion" or debate (that's really what a
opposing views is, regardless).
I've spent a lot of my time debating issues, enough to realize that emotional,
nonobjective statements always lead to digression and a veritable shouting
matc of charcters or words.
If you wish to debate/discuss i suggest you stick with objective statements
and rebuttals.  Deal with opposing ideas, not opposing emotions.
Anyone can spurt out emotional comments that do considerable damage to the
other party...  ANYONE, and it requires little skill.
Take the harder path, everyone, and let's deal with objective arguments.
Robert Adams
     Granted, it doesn't take much "skill" to realize that I dislike you
views.  I don't feel that people should be judged on their potential, instead
of who they are.  Are you going to marry a woman because of what she "can be"
as opposed to who she is      I think, personally, that you have a problem with
love.  Do you "love" anybody      How can you love a person for what they can be   
How can you love a person for any other reason, besides who they are     

     Yes, I am an emotional person.  I believe that I am as emotional, as I am
intellectual...  I suppose that is why we disagree so often, you appear to
lack any emotion.  I don't believe this is true, I think you (like all the
other "emotionless" people) are just afraid to give into them and let them
show...  That's your choice... 

     I did give you some facts...  You can't destroy 10% of society.
Homosexuality is not going away.  I don't think the "Gay Movement" is going o
to stop.  It may take a long time, but eventually, homosexuality will be an
accepted part of life...  Accept it now, or accept it later, but be
prepared...  I also believe that the percentage is higher than 10%, but the
others are staying quiet for safety reasons or whatever...

                                                  % Tez
  Well Said Tez..

 Now Rob.. Could you please stop
fighting against homosexuality evry
second of the day..  I know you think
yu are a bastion of good morals and of
society.. But Lay off. Words aren'T
goi change anything.. If you really
dislike homosexuals why don'T you go
out and change them and show them the
"Error" in there ways.. (I would love
t see the reaction you would get.)

              Solomon Kane.
Tez, by what evidence do you think i have a problem with love      Now, speaking
of knowing some body when we don't... 
If you asked several people in my life, and several past people, you would
find ample evidence i have no problem with love.  I've had more than my share
of relationships, good and bad, to know otherwise.  You, a person who can not
even communicate effectively on a one to one basis in real, 3-D atmospheres
accuse me of having a problem with emotions              Come off it...  I won't even
bother arguing this point with you for two reasons:  1} I don't have any
responsibility to defend my life to you when the only source of evidence i
have is myself and one close friend on this system.  2} I think your argument
is again inflamatory, and in addition, irrelevent, and purely based on
unstable emotions from yourself directed towards me.
I debate, for the most part, without emotion because it is the best form of
debate, and the most stable.  I do not think without emotion, all ideas are
formed from emotions and reason (hand in hand), but to truly deal with ideas
in a relative and constructive manner it must be done without emotion.

{Debate Engaged}

It is possible for an individual to destroy 10% of society.  There are almost
counteless examples of this in history.  However, it is not my desire to
destroy 10%, but to change 1 or 1,000,000.  My ideas, if propagated would
indeed be miscontrued, there is evidence of this even on this system.  It
would be misunderstood for the basic reason that most humans think with their
heqrt and gut, not with their mind.  They loved Hitler, they didn't agree with
him.  They hated Christ, they did agree with him though.

My ideas, although containing the cataylyst for genecide and holacaust (as do
Mohaammed, Budha, Christ Jesus, Washington, Jefferson, and even Lincoln), do
not call for it, and even call against it.  They do call for CHANGE, and for
toleration of those sects in society.  They, above all, call for a hands off
approach towards humanity's creations (society, etc.), but with active
injection of conflicting and Truthful ideals.

One adhering to the Messiah's ideals, or to the ideas and principles i
espouse, would best be exemplified by a man (an ordinary business man let us
say) marching down the sidewalk, and occasionaly against traffic if necessary,
with a sign declaring some anti-social/anti-agressitory business concept.  He
is slowly noticed, and promptly hated, and eventually destroyed.
This was the case of the Messiah, and will be the case for many who walk
agains the flow.  It really boils down to friction.
Homosexuality is indeed more common than 10%.  My dealings with the public
have proved this to me, and surveys done by Masters and Johnson also claim
otherwise.  Homosexuality is against everything we like about what society
produces, but against everything that makes up society.  Humans are all for
the benefits of society, but are unwilling to fully and continually embrace
the constructive elements in the creation known as "society."
Robert Adams
Could someone PLEASE delete the first 40 responses on this post.
I think its pretty bad when one has to wait -2 Mins- for new responses.
Also, it might just be a wise idea to keep all posts 50 responses max, seeing
that a 2 min wait is not unnormal on this system.  Why, on most system a 30
sec wait is considered unbearable.
This is a rational request, after all if someone responded to one of the
earlier responses it would be considered in bad taste, and a highly irrelevent
So, what's the advantage of having 120 responses, waiting 2 minutes for
messages, and having people respond to very old responses         
Tez - I do not have an intense hatred of death, and at any rate, I'm hardly a

Robert - Bret works a forty hour week.  In addition to those forty hours, he
works three to four hours a week for his grandparents, who are too old and
sick to do for themselves, two to three hours a DAY for his mother, who has a
baby to care for, and at least twelve hours a week for his stepfather, who has
no excuse, but is very very officious, ... the rest of the time that he isn't
sleeping he spends with me.  If big important you can't wait two minutes to
read whatever responses his big important messages has incited, don't FUCKING

Now, I'd like to thank everyone who wants to "sooth things over" 
'aw gee bob, don't cry, she doesn't mean it'  Because she does.  I find you
hateful, hurtful, overbearing, officious, terribly conceeded, very
disagreeable, and generally awful.  If I thought you were capable of crying, I
would leave off immediately.  You said YOURSELVE that the only reason you
torment people is to keep in practice in case a REAL arguement comes up.  If I
thought Bret feel badly about it, I would just start deleting things you said,
because it would probably make you mad enough not to call anymore.  Prehaps I
should add "coward" to my list, considering how much more pleasant you were
when you were "face to face" so to speak, with we peasants.

     Robert, I thought I was "pushing it" with that statement about you...
luckily I stopped there.  I probably should have kept it to myself, but I
guess you never know until you try.  I "judge" people based on a psychological
and emotional point of view.  Granted, I don't "know" you.  I don't know a lot
of people at first, but that doesn't mean I am alway wrong.  I expected you to
say what you said...   {End of that discussion}

     You think you can change "The 10%" (that's how it is referred to)      Do
you realize if you change the minority, all that will be left will be a
majority      That is impossible...  It can't be done.  Would your mind be so
easily changed      Why do you think that homosexuals' minds are easier to change
than yours      or mine      Their not, don't even waste your time...

     You cite "examples"...  What do they prove      They were in the past.
That was then, this is now.  None of those people accepted homosexuality
probably any more than you do, unless they were gay themselves.  (Did you know
it is believed that we had a homosexual president    )  I don't think your
examples are relevant to this discussion...  And I don't believe in a

                                                  % Tez

     Xan, I know you don't favor/like death and I was giving you credit for
being a woman, but if you insist.  Maybe you would prefer the gender neutral
term "person"         
     I think it's best that these things were discussed in person, it could be
very unfavorable for most.  I think this board is the best place for it.  And
to tell you the truth, sometimes I disagree with people just for the sake of
argument (that is not the case now)...

JARETH (ID# 102)
  Xan,if i knew Cutter wouldn't get
mad at me,i'd kiss you for that
response.It's about tyme someone stood
up to this "guy" and gunned him down
back to his level!
  Anyway,on a lighter note,

 Xan: That response was litterally
stunning. Just reading the response I
could feel your hatred of Robert Adams
(A.K.A DickHead.) seething off of the
screen.. The feeling was so intense I
almost began to choke on it.. Thebest
part of the entire message was the
fact that it was all true. Every word
of it. I especially liked the
Officious (Is that how you spell
it        )..
  It was about time good ol' Rob got a
good dose of verbal abuse.


                Solomon Kane.

P.S: I can't wait to see his response.
I bet it will be cool and heartless as

     I'm sorry, but this is getting a bit ridiculous...  Xan, I thought you
were a little more open-minded, but I guess I was wrong.  You are doing
something as bad as he does (according to everyone).  He disagrees with others
and he states his argument, that's what you are supposed to do in a
discussion.  But you shoot him down for his opinions...  Why don't you state
your argument/point of view and discuss things     

Xan:  Thank you for posting your message, anc clearing up just what you ARE
feeling.  My previous statements do stand on sure ground, as everyone now can
see.  I too work a 40 hour and plus work week (more in terms of 48-55), and i
get paid for every hour, unlike Cutter, and over time also, so i make a
considerable amount of money thank God.  But, this does not stop me from
addressing the many responsibilities in my life, or negelecting the posts on
this system.  You can sob all you want about the many trials and tribulations,
but i assure you, from personal experience, each life has its own trials, its
own tragedies, and its many tribulations, as Cutter's life is no exception to
this, i tell you now, NEITHER IS MINE.
If Cutter feels unable to maintain this subboard, perhaps another person
should be selected for Co-SubOp.  I would feel confident in knowing that you,
Xan, had this responsbility.  Seeing that if you did indeed carry out what you
threaten there would be a hefty price in the long run.
Tez:  Ditto, in many ways.  I find it very ironic that when some accuse me of
great hate, they have little hesitation to embark upon that path themselves,
and running down it no less.
I have no place for hate in my heart, and i can say without falacy that there
is no one in my life that i truly hate.  There are people that i wish they'd
change their course of actions and thoughts, but i don't hate them for it!  In
my mind it should take quite a lot to astually hate a person, and i've yet to
see that amount exceeded in my life.  And even if it was i'm not so sure i'd
hate that person.  People can always change, believe me.
{Debate Engaged}
It is possible to change, but it is impossible to actively change others.  You
may give them the building blocks, and the tools to change themselves, and
even the instructions on how to go about it, but you are never able to
actually make that change.
I have changed a great deal in my life, and i mean drastically.  6 years ago i
used to be a very different person, i would say truly evil.  And in a matter
of months, and through a series of very peculair circumstances i did change.
I changed not because i just decided to one fine morning, but rather, because
i was forced to due to circumstance.  It was either change or self
destruction, in a manner of speaking.
In those two paragraphs i have alluded to the both the methods and means of
changing others, or rather, manipulating the change of others.  Take heed.
Now...  You pviously said that you believe, Tez, that homosexuality will one
day be widely accepted, and that i should recognize the signs of the times.  I
have.  And, past historical examples are relevent.  Many civilizations have
WIDELY ACCEPTED HOMOSEXUALITY.  The Persian Empire, the Greek, the Spartan,
the Roman, The Israelite, and now the Pan-European and North & South American.

But, each of these "acceptenses" has always been followed by decadence and
destruction of that society.  When i speak of acceptenses, i not only included
homosexuality, but materialism, political factionism, and quite often the
sense of increased individuality over community.  All of these things are
present, or increasingly so, in our and like societies.
Yes, homosexuality will be accepted, and i am prepared for it.  But, further
more, homosexuality will be AGREED to.  And i strongly doubt many of today's
populations are ready for the consequences of such and other actions.
The acceptence and agreeing with homosexuality as a viable lifestyle is not
the cause for society's degeneration, but rather a result of a great cause
within each individual in society (or the majority of those individuals), and
i think that something is a craving for freedom and zero responsbilities.
Robert Adams
"Does someone smell rain in the air        "
   Well, since everyone seems to be
airing their dirty linen about cold,
heartless Robert Adams, I'll join in
the fray...

   Robert, will you PLEASE find some
other subject besides society to
ramble on about in virtually all of
your responses on this board     It gets
EXTREMELY BORING after a while, and
I'm sure everyone else is just as
sick and tired of it as I am.
   I have but four words to say on
your favored subject, Robert: SOCIETY

           :) Frumpy (:

P.S.: You were right, Solomon. Rob's
response was as cold and heartless as
you expected. Not to mention

Robert, will you kindly shut up      You bitch like hell whenever I play sub-op,
you insult and abuse me on what, I use to consider my own board, and now,
you're saying gee Xan, why don't you clean up around here, the place is a
mess.  Limit your "responsibilities" little (very little) love, DON'T call
here.. or skip the first post.. or just "put a sock in it" as they say in the
vernacular, as I'm sure Cutter would tell you to do.

By the bye, Mr. Smartypants, there's no such thing as a co-sub op.. ask Derec
if you don't believe me.  Sorry (yes, we all noticed you clearing your throat
and pointing to yourself).

Tez, thank you, I hadn't realized it was a compliment... I hadn't meant it
harshly, I kind of like being referred to as a half grown girl... makes me
feel a little less old.  You weren't half so "disappointed" in me 'til you
read what everyone else had to say... hmmmm.  Yes, I conceed, I suppose I AM
responsible for how my opinions influence other opinions.  It wasn't a
disagrement though Tez, with any "ideologies", it had nothing whatsoever to do
with this board... he set off a trigger that I didn't even know was there, and
when I "came back" so to speak I still wanted/want blood in return... I'm not
expected to get along, nay, love EVERYONE am I     ok, so maybe I am.. but I
won't (ick).  Besides, I'm not responsible for my actions so NAHHHHHHHHH.
(yes, I'm kidding).

Jareth -  thank you dear.  You can, you know... everyone kisses me.

Thank for you your support.  (Sol and Frump).

Love and Fishes

 Rob... Rob, Rob.. It is amazing that
you work 40-55 hours a week and still
have time to handle all of the other
reponsibilities of mantaining society.
I mean if you aren't working, you must
be out crusading against homosexuals,
or visiting a foriegn country to
relieve international tensions.. MY
GOD! How do you do it   
 You stated that you were once very
evil, Maybe you should take a good
close look again and you will see you
are still evil.

  Luckily most everyone notices this
fault in your personality and ignores
your attempts to convert us to your


XAN: I think you are doing a great job
as subboard sub-op.

Frumpy: Maybe we should set up a
Coalition versus cold, heartless, and
boring messages   


Kane: Maybe you should end this


 'Where would we be without social
deviance    '

                         Solomon Kane.

     Ok!  Robert, you haven't lost your talent for straining the editor, I
see.  I actually read that whole message and (shh, don't tell anyone) I found
it interesting...  I am pretty sure that homosexuality will become acceptable
in the future.  I don't think this is a sign that our society is
deterioriating, however.  Yes, it looks like we are following the degenerative
tracks left by past civilizations.  I think we are a little better than they

     As it is well known, many of those past societies had a "Carpe Diem"
attitude ('live for today').  I don't think that we have that same attitude.
Our society is a little more advanced than that.  Don't you think the
historians would be screaming right now (you, not included) if we were
following the same path to destruction      The homosexuals of our society are
not out to 'run around naked having sex with everyone'.  They simply want
equal rights and acceptance in their/our society.  Is it so wrong for them to
want to be treated like human beings     

     Xan, you're wrong, darling...  I was disappointed when I first saw your
messages, I just held my tongue, hoping you would realize that it was foolish.
I am not trying to be a "bitchy" critic... it just sounds that way.  I admit
you can't love everyone...  Robert, you say you don't hate anyone, don't
worry, I probably hate enough people for the both of us...  As for everyone's
trials and tribulations, I don't think that would make a very
interesting/objective discussion on this system...  As for your change, that's
good for you.  Now you are not evil.  Personally, it depends on my mood of the
day...  but we won't make a topic out of this...  Sorry, Xan, I got
side-tracked...  I don't think you influenced anyone's opinions, I think they
were waiting to say it, but just wanted someone to side with them...  some
people don't like to fight alone...

                                                        % Tez
Although you admit that our society is following the many tracts that past
civilizations did, you don't believe we declining.  You say we are better than
they.  Perhaps in a technological fashion.  But, have hose qualities in humans
that never depend upon time (love, diplomacy, methods towards peace) really
changed any      I think not.
How is our society better than the other i mentioned      What traits   
Tez, you also state that we do not have a "Live for Today" attitude in America
, i disagree on this point.  We, as individual citizens, borrow more than any
other nation.  We also postpone many things, like a deficit, a diminishing
middle class.  Many teenagers have abolsutely no idea what their plans are for
the future, much less what their long term goals are.  The same can also be
said for a considerable amount of the adult population.
And even as a nation we have no long term goals.  Other nations, like South
Korea have economic and political goals.  The same can be said for WGermany,
France, Israel, Egypt, Libya, China, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Taiwan, and the
But, the US is much like Britain, without purpose, without goals.  But,
perhaps we do have a goal, survival of our way of life.
Many historians today are noting a declining American Empire. There is even a
book (popular too i believe) under just such a name.  Many economists forsee
economic doom in the not too near future, and with economic bad times, comes
decreasing political power in the geopolitical forum.
I believe that homosexuals should be treated as human beings.  They should be
treated with toleration and love.  None of what i have just said is new, i
have said this many, many times.
And i have also said that homosexual is wrong for a number of reasons, which
has also been debated.
Robert Adams
   Oh I see, and I suppose you have
your entire life plotted all out,
knowing exactly what you're going to
do, right, Robert   

           :) Frumpy (:

P.S.: Good editing, Xan!

Yes, Frump, i do have a lifetime plan in my head.  A few key/crucial events in
my life are quite forseeable, and thus i plan around them, while injecting a
few desires.
Thus, my life is indeed planned.
Robert Adams