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Now, if a nuclear exchange occurs, than it is going to hit major production
and militairy targets.. and this will kill millions of innocent non military

Now if the major population centers ARE hit.. then there goes all the homeless
and unemployed.. and most of the illiterate too.. and a lot of people like you
and I would be killed too.. the only ones who servive will be the ones who
figu out HOW to..

Is That or Isn't that a BOOST to the evolution of the human race   

And such a destructive war would certainly make us resist the next, because
our next war will be fought on EVERBODY's doorstep, not in some country with a
strange name, a thousand miles away..

This owuld have to be a "limited" exchange as people put it.. and I know there
is no such thing as a winable war (its a lie we dont beleive anymore.. oh
sorry) but I realy think that if we had a nuclear/conventional war right this
very minute, it would be a tremendous farce.. 80% of the missiles would never
reach their targets.. stuff like that.. the military is a lot less orginized
than they'd have us beleive..

 I cannot agree with you that a
limited nuclear/conventional war would
be a benefit to the Human Race.. First
There is no such thing as a limited
nuclear war.. (sorry if I burst your
bubble there...) Second The few people
that did survive would be fanatics,
the lucky, and a small remnant of the
army.. Most of these people would
probably be killed anyway by the
lingering effects of radiation.. And
there offspring wouldn't be very good
either.. (genetic Damage) And of
course I am not getting into the large
dustclouds  Blotting out the sun etc..

  You also mentioned that  80% of the
missiles would miss there target.
(Pretty much the optimist aren't we
now..) Well I don't think that is
true, it isn't to hard to press a
button... And even if 20% of the
missiles hit their targets.. That is
still enough to turn the world into a
nice wasteland for the radiation
infected and the bugs..
  You also stated that the survivors
would be resistant to another war..
Hmm.. Supposing That the remainder of
the human race was able to somehow
survive and regain the current height
of technology, they would be just as
apt to start another war.. (Hmm.. One
country hints "hey I gotta a really
big Nuke" and The other countries
would "SHIT We better build one" And
The arms race would rebegin.. And if
some sick twist of fate should occur
that one country is being strangled by
another and if the stranglee has
nuclear capabilities that would
destroy the strangler.. You cannot
tell me they wouldn't use them as a
last resort..

   Basically the only way your
scenario could occur is if the human
race was made up of "GOOD, SANE
Individuals"; unfortunately the Human
Race is made up of Some GOOD, Sane
individuals and a hell of a lot more
"Insane, Greedy, Twisted Bastards."
  And if the world was made up of
"Good, Sane people" we wouldn't even
have to worry about nuclear war since
it wouldn'T be able to occur...

  Now if you had said a Nice
Conventional war would be a benefit
(population wise) you would be right.


              Solomon Kane.

     Between the US and Russia, don't we have enough nuclear weapons to kill
everything on the planet at least 25 times.  (I remember hearing somethink
like that.  I am not sure about the number.)  Personally I think our chances
are quite slim...  of anything surviving.

   I believe it was Albert Einstein
who said that the next World War
following a nuclear war would be
fought with sticks and stones...

           :) Frumpy (:

I actually know what to say.  I remember how this situation was avoided, what
actually happened to the world, some really nifty information about the second
coming (actually, about the hundred and eighty second), and the electric
cruxifiction.  I remember because I read the whole story in a book (about a
missing book) which has since disappeared into thin air, nobody's heard of it,
nobody's seen it and I'm considering rewriting it and seeing if anyone sues

I think I should keep quite, buy the appropriate stocks, and above all LEARN
TO TAP DANCE.. thus insuring a prosperous future for my mate and children.

Cutter, i enjoy your semantical argument.  Solomon is correct, in terms of a
super power exchange, there is nothing unto a limited exhange.  Its basically
a domino affect, except all the dominos launch within 20 minutes of each
Secondly...  Nuclear, hydrogen, fusion, magentic, or any other weapon now in
develoment can not destroy all life on Earth.  We always seem to have this all
powerful perception of humanity.  Why, when machine guns were produced the
then current Pope, along with the "intellectual" community, was up in arms,
lecturing, writing, parading, you name it, that these "mechanized guns" would
wipe out all of humanity.
All the arguments you now hear about thermonuclear war are very old arguments.
 Humanity has limited power at its disposal, and thus limited potential for
destroying ourselves.
People would survive.  They wouldn't be living in very pretty circumstances,
but they would survive.
I also disagree with your theory that the survivors of the next wars and
subsequent chaos, and then the tyrranical power then to unsue, would be
against war so viamently.  Experience does not change the heart of a man,
which is naturally corrupt.  Thinking and reason does, which most of us do
very little of.
Super Power nuclear exchange will never happen as we know it.  I believe that
limited nuclear exchanges between minor powers will be common place in a deace
or (decade) or two.  Cities will be destroyed, not just by nuclear weapons,
but by biological warfare, and magnetism (involving gravity and the polar
forces) for another.  Sins of men are the great scourge of this planet, not
our machines, technology, or weapons.
And who would have thought that a city could be consumed by the splitting of
an atom, much less the power the power harnessible in the structure of ice or
Robert Adams
What I meant that probably 80% would never hit targets is that for example or
aegeis cruisers have launched about 4 missiles (that we know of) and 2 of them
at a flock of birds and two at an Iranian A300 airbus... OOOPS

Know what I mean.   

  Nature is good.. Man comes from
nature... therefore man is inherently

 (or possibly nature is neutral..
 Ahh.. The theory of trancendentalism
as brought to us by Emerson and the
author of Walden..(who was he     I
always get one of the two people

               Solomon Kane
   I think it's more like this, Sol:

   "Nature ione mean, merciless
mother. And so can we, her offspring,

           :) Frumpy (:

JARETH (ID# 102)
  Man's own competitivness and urge to
improve will be his ultimate downfall
and destruction...

Thoreau and Emerson are easily confusable, as their philosophies are very
similiar, and they new each otehr very closely.
Man's constant urge to improve upon his environment will be his salvation, if
it is accompanied by the will to know what is True.
Nature is not good, nor is it evil.  Nature IS our enemy, as we are builders,
not destroyers.  Nature is the destroyer.  The Universe is slowly destriying
it self, into absolute, simplistic, cold, stagnation.  Man is the only hope to
turn this cycle around.
We must improve upon nature, in essence build a New Universe, a New Earth.
The natural laws are corrupt, and without purpose.
Man is with purpose, that's why we have accomplished so much more than
physically equal beings, such as the dolphin.
Robert Adams
   Oh I see, so that's why Man does
such stupid things as build Taunton
High School on the flood plain of the
Taunton River and cottages on the
Chatham beach front   

           :) Frumpy (:

There are Stupid Humans, and Humans.
Those are Stupid Humans.
Robert Adams
"You classify 'em, we grab 'em
Yes, considers himself superior to the dolphin because man has created war,
and technology, and digital watches, and the traffic jam, while the dolphin
just eats and plays all day long.. and the dolphin considers himself superior
to man for exactly the same reasons...

Sorry, don't remember the quote exactly,... it was read to me instead of by

JARETH (ID# 102)
  Good enuf,those of us that know of
which you speak know what ya mean.
  Nature is NOT an enemy.Nature is.
If Nature is an enemy why would She
have created her own nemesis     Was She
that bored     Nature could destroy us at
any tyme Those with a sense of
survival respect that...

Dolphins wonder and have curiousity as we humans do, yet we are able to
satisfy ours to a much greater degree.  We have discovered the ultimate joy,
the joy of discovering and building.  They have not.
You name war, and in doing so call to mind a lot of disgusting actions and
movements within our race.  We are all capable of such things, and in time we
will all be capable of abolishng such things.
I would have rather died as a race having taken the chance to be better than
what we are, than to have merely served our fleeting existence at the
servitude of Nature's whims.
And Jareth...  You speak as if Nature is a conscious entity.  Although this
idea had its popularity in the past, i doubt you believe this.  Nature is like
a clock, as the Deitists said, that has been turned on and left to run its
course.  Nature is like a sack of marbles being poured down a flight of
stairs, and on the way merely rearranging themselves into various patterns,
and about one fith down the flight of stairs they arranged a matrix called
organic life, and two fiths farther down that matrix died out...
Now, hopeflly mankind will rise above the organic and thus rise above Nature,
and from there perhaps we can manage to stop the downward progression of the
Universe, and really do some creating and building.
Robert Adams
JARETH (ID# 102)
  Man will and can never rise above
Nature. I doubt man will ever be able
to totally control the elements. Much
the same way i doubt you'll learn to
control your mouth...

I shall respond in politeness and disregard the rude remarks, keeping in mind
where i am within the matrix.
Jareth:  What causes you to think that Mankind will never rise high enough to
control Nature/The Universe.  We substantially control our very environments
at this point.  Within our lifetimes we will see Cities that are never rained
upon, or where the cold never reaches.  There are humans in New York City that
have never walked in a forest, and will die never having done such.  Man, not
merely by his numbers alone, but also by his technology, will one day control,
manipulate, and restore Nature into his own likeness.
Robert Adams
JARETH (ID# 102)

 What you're saying is that man can
  control Nature inside He can not
 control the outside weather totally.
         That is impossible.

     Jareth, is it not possible to have a civil discussion      Everyone bitches
because Robert doesn't accept their views, but everyone is so quick to deny
and threaten to purge Robert for his views...  Let's stop being hypocritical.
Personally, I think this board would suck if everyone agreed about
everything...  I enjoy the intelligent discussions that I have/do have with
Robert...  Calm down everyone...  Is there a full moon or is this some kinda
contagious PMS   

     I don't think that Nature is our enemy, but I have to agree with Robert,
some day man will be able to control most natual occurences...  Some day the
weather will be controlled, it is not impossible.  I wish we could leave
Nature alone, but I don't think that is going to happen...

                                                     % Tez
   Well, there was a full moon last
night, and it's still quite full...
Perhaps the hot weather has something
to do with it   

           :) Frumpy (:

This really isn't worth my time or effort... 
I think i'll wait till the heat wave dies down for you guys (personally i love
humidity, so much easier to breath and its so serene looking outdoors), or
until i gather more patience,
 For all we know Dolphins could have a
technically advanced society which far
surpasses are own.. Ever think that
mabe all those unexplained UFO
sightings and the bermuda triangle
could be caused by dolphins..

              Solomon Kane.
   So long...And thanks for all the

           :) Frumpy (:

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Ack Hmm. YA YA YA



   The Outburst.
   It was all my fault.

               Solomon KAne.
   Life...loath it or ignore it. You
can't like it.

           :) Frumpy (:

*CUTTER (ID# 39)
but solomon, thats IMPOSSIBLE.(re:ufos)

NOW, how would the dolphins get so high up   

Life is very likeable, otherwise i would think a great many things wouldn't be
turning in the world.
I like life.
And i do wonder why you do not.
Robert Adams

   It was a quote from "The
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy",
you GIT

           :) Frumpy (:

God, Robert, you take everything FAR
too seriously